Proper Shift Lever Alignment (Long)

[Bookwus]

Hiya All,

Those of you who have frequented these forums for a while know that I have had my share of problems with positioning the shift lever so that it works properly.  My general conclusion in the past is that one has to bit crazy or desperate to remove the shift lever at all.  I must fall into the crazy category because I've done it again.

Here's the context.............the shift action between First and Second (both ways) was quite good.  Between Low and First the action was good on the upshift, very poor on the downshift.  Reverse has always been easy to find and hold.  So..........my basic problem has been the the downshift from First to Low and, at times, finding Low from Nuetral.

With that in mind, I took off the rear inspection plate (over the shift coupler), and took the car out for a drive.  When I attempted to shift from First to Low it did not seem as if I could move the shift lever far enough to the left in order to engage Low.  In order to get it into Low I had to depress the shift lever (as one would do when getting into Reverse) to get far enough left to get into Low.  And when I looked at the shift coupler (when trying to get into Low without depressing the shift lever) it looked as if it were not rotating far enough to get into Low.  When I did depress the shift lever I could rotate the shift coupler far enough to get into Low.

So.............I'm thinking that the shift stop plate is holding things up.  I trimmed down the sides of the shift stop plate and enlarged the bolt holes so I could move the shift stop plate around a bit under the gear shift lever base.  This did not seem to make any difference in the original problem and seemed to create some new shifting problems depending on just where I put that shift stop plate.

FWIW, the shift rod bushing is in good shape and there is very little play in the shift rod.  The coupler is hooked up and transferrring all movements of the shift rod.

It seems to me that the shift stop plate is the villain in this little drama but since everything I've tried has turned up with zip improvements I'm starting to doubt my original conclusion about the shift stop plate.  Could this be a problem inside the nosecone with the shift forks?  Anybody have any ideas to try with the shift lever/shift rod/shift stop plate?  I'm outta ideas right now.

[volkenstein]

Mike,
      I'll have a fiddle in the shed on the spare trans and see what I can see.

Regards
Sean

[volkenstein]

Mike,
      Well, not much of anything . The two shift forks have closed ends so the arc of the hockey stick gets a positive stop. It does tend to the like the hockey stick positioned "just so" to allow it to swing back and forth in neutral. It will be bumpy or catchy if it isn't "just so". The detents in the shift levers should hold them in the correct position.

Not much.


Regards
Sean

[tmea]

Hey Bookwus:

Just so I understand, the difficulty is downshifting from 1st to low. is this stationary or while moving? Mine, functioning perfectly now will not shift down from 1st to L while moving. Neither will my MT T-1. I know in the case of my MT T-1 there is no synchronizer on the back side of the lowest gear. I have not checked but I suspect the same is true for the AS transmission.

Tom

[Bookwus]

Hiya Tom,

I'm thinking that your MT should downshift from Second to First IF you are going slower than 10 mph.  I know that's the case with my Bus MT.

You raise an excellent point about being able to dowshift from First to Low in an AutoStick.  I have done this a bunch so I'm thinking that's it's not a matter of synchros in the AS.  For me, it's just that I now cannot find Low without depressing the shift lever.

[Bookwus]

Hiya All,

A question.............I got a suggestion that I should take a prybar and force the shift rod to the right (Actually, if I were even to do this I'm thinking I'd want to force it to the left) which would bend the shift rod hanger in the same direction.  That would change the position of the shift rod cup that engages the bottom of the shift lever.  While I can see some possible advantages from doing this, I'm not crazy about the idea of forcing anything.  Y'all think the problems I'm having just might be from the shift rod hanger being forced out of its original position?

[tmea]

Thanks for the explination Mike. I seldom use L. In the mornings I have to ascend a hill to get out of my neighborhood, that is about it. Unfortunately What your problem may be is outside of my experiences... I would however recommend against any 'prybar adjusting' as there are few if any wear items I can think of that would be effectivly countered with that approach.

I have taken shift pattern plates and linkage blocks (in other cars) that were excessively worn and mig welded a new edge over the wear and then ground back to proper form.

Wish I could be of more help.

Tom

[volkenstein]

Mike,
      Why not drill the spot welds out (not through the bracket, using a cutter!), use sheet metal screws 'n' washers to hold it up...find "the sweet spot" and then weld it back up if it all works out?

Much cleaner and less hideous than realising the crow bar has deformed your shift rod bracket out of shape....


HTH
Sean

[Bookwus]

Hiya Sean,

That is an idea to keep in reserve.

The problem here is that I don't even know if tweaking the position of the shift rod (and shift rod hanger) will even make any difference.

I don't want to do any moving of the shift rod/hanger until I have reasonable justification to do so.  Reasonable justification for me consists of two parts:

1.  An observation that the shift rod/hanger does seem to be out of position somewhat
2.  Indications (by others like you or myself - hopefully both!) that doing such a tweak will have an effect (positive is what I'm hoping for) on the shift action.

Now, because of the schedule, I haven't had a chance to get back inside the center tunnel.  So I'm still out to lunch on Number One above.  But the more I turn this over mentally, it does seem that repositioning the shift rod cup to the left SHOULD (?) give me a further rotation to the right on the shift rod.  That, in turn, will make it easier to get into Low.

What do you think?  Should moving the shift rod cup to the left make for more rotation to the right on the shift rod?

[volkenstein]

Mike,
     As you are sitting in your normal driving position, then yes,  that'll make the shift rod/coupler/hockey stick travel more into the L/R shift fork.

Regards
Sean

[greenghia]

Hi Book,   Have been following the thread for a couple of days. I would think that installing the shifter with the base of the shifter moved all the way over to the right would give you an idea whether bending the rod/moving the bracket would work.  Tunnel work is at the very top of my do not do list. I have never intentionally moved mine over that far(marked the tunnel and got lucky ) but with the sensitivity of the shifter position you would think that the trans would not go into drive 1 or 2 from that position.   

[Bookwus]

Hiya guys,

Thanks for the input.

Here's where I stand right now.  I took a look at the shift rod hanger.  Looks just fine to me.  It is VERY secure and because of the way it is fabricated and welded in place not prone to movement.  I'm not gonna try tweaking that sucker.  I like it just as it is.  I am rebuilding a new shift lever out of spare parts.  When I'm done with that I'll give it a try although I'm not really expecting anything - but one never knows.

So far I have been concentrating on moving or altering the shift stop plate in order to achieve some sort of positive effect on the shift action.  (By the way, I have to depress the shift knob, as one does to get into Reverse to get into any gear except Second)  It occurred to me that there might be another way to do this.  What about grinding down the collar on the shift lever?  That would give me more throw between the stops on both sides of the shift stop plate and consequently more leverage to move the shift rod.  I would have to be careful not to take too much off or Reverse won't hold in place.

What do y'all think about that approach?

[68autobug]

Hi Mike and others..

I'm just glad these are NOT My problems.... 

I don't think I have ever changed down from 1st to LOW
whilst moving....

I crunch a lot going from Drive Two to Drive 1...

not all the time...  if I'm going really slow its OK...

I have also revved the engine before dropping into Drive One
with success....  most of the time..

My Wife never uses LOW... and Never crunches any gears.... 

and She changes back from Drive Two to Drive One...  OK..??

Mike,
Why do You think the support bracket is in the wrong place???
Made wrong in the factory ??

Best of luck

LEE

[Bookwus]

Hiya Lee,

Mike,
Why do You think the support bracket is in the wrong place???
Made wrong in the factory ??

Truthfully Lee, after taking a close look at it I was pretty sure that nothing was wrong with the shift rod hanger.  However, in light of recent events it appears that I was wrong.

A little context.................I was thinking about forcing the shift rod (and consequently the shift rod hanger) into a slightly different position in order to access all the "gear slots" with my shift lever.  The problem was that when I looked at the shift rod hanger it appeared to be in the correct position.

So, instead, I rebuilt a new shift lever out of spare parts I had on the shelf.  I thought that a new shift lever might make a difference - and it did.  But not the difference I was looking for.  What I got after installing the rebuilt shift lever was a VERY smooth action but I still could not get into Low without depressing the shift lever knob.  I knew that, without the shift lever in place, the shift rod rotated fully.  Therefore, the shift rod's relation to the shift lever and the shift stop plate HAD to be the cause of the problem.

By this time I had tried just about every concieveable position and combination of orientations for the shift stop plate.  Nothing seemed to work in that approach.  So, I decided to go ahead an force the shift rod to one side.  I tried forcing it left and there was no improvement.  I thought about it a bit and then tried forcing it to the right further than it had been originally.  At that point I got a big improvement.

The car now shifts into Low very cleanly.  It also downshifts from First to Low very cleanly.  And from First to Second.  I'm really quite pleased with the feel of the action and the pattern.  The only problem I have now is that I cannot downshift from Second to First without depressing the shift knob.  I'm working on that right now.

So, why was the shift rod hanger out of its proper place?  I'm guessing that it was just a matter of wear over 40 years.  To be sure it is well made and strong, but 40 years of wrestling the shift lever around can take its toll.

I'm just glad these are NOT My problems....  

I don't think I have ever changed down from 1st to LOW
whilst moving....

I crunch a lot going from Drive Two to Drive 1...

not all the time...  if I'm going really slow its OK...

I have also revved the engine before dropping into Drive One
with success....  most of the time..

Guess what!  I think you may have the same problem.  During my tweaking I did get gear grinding from time to time.  That went away when I made adjustments to the shift lever and it relation to the shift stop plate and the shift rod.  You should be able to upshift through all the forward gears and downshift through the gears without having to depress the shift lever.


Next up for me..............pulling the shift rod and making sure the shift rod cup has not been depressed "out of level" with the rest of the rod.  While I've got it out I'll also be installing a new shift rod bushing.  I'm thinking all this prying around on the shift rod cannot have been too good for the bushing.

[hercdriver]

Great thread Bookwus! As always keep us posted with the lastest. Add a few pics to make this thread complete.