Engine removal

raysor · 11 June 2011, 22:28

Just got my bug into rented garage and first aim is to remove engine for repair. I cannot get the car up on ramps due to limited space. What is the best method for raising the car? I have read get it as high as possible. I have trolley jack and axle stands but have read that it is best to use four leg ones. Also is there a step by step guide to what to take off, where the engine bolts are etc. There is a thread on the technical section but it seems limited info. for an absolute beginner! Help!

raysor · 13 June 2011, 19:02

Quite like the idea of removing the valance. On the other hand it is a lot easier to take things apart than get them back to the original.

68autobug · 14 June 2011, 04:25

Hi
Yes, removing the rear valance makes taking the engine out a one man job... [two would be easier..lol]
If You can weld or have someone who can weld cheaply for You..
then I have some great pics on this better way to remove the rear valance [than the way I went]
I will put them on here today [hopefully]

You need to drain the ATF from the lower hose going to the ATF Tank.. [or from the bottom of the tank]
be careful with the hose/pipe connections , as they can be damaged...
use two spanners if You can on pipe fitting/hose fitting...

When You take the 4 nuts holding the engine in off...
the torque converter WILL come with the engine unless You have undone the 4 bolts inside the bell housing
containing the torque converter [thru the square cutouts]
then You will still need to hold the torque converter to the gearbox..
when You take the torque converter Off the shafts ... ATF WILL drop downwards...
put something under it to catch the ATF.... can be about a pint or so... depending on how long You let the ATF Drain..

I'll post more pics for you.. and see what I can find...

cheers

Lee in Australia

label all electrical wires... [something I never do...lo]

raysor · 14 June 2011, 10:15

Thanks Lee, pics would be good. Obviously I want to do the least damage possible removing the valance so that it can be welded back on as cheaply as possible.
Intention is to take our time getting things done. The idea is to take the engine out, strip it down and re-assemble with new bits etc.
The Beetle has been standing on the front lawn for a year or so after Dave, my son, ran it without any engine oil! Engine still runs but with a 'slight' clattering noise. Just rented a small garage and the Beetle is up on ramps prior to us removing the engine. Then much scratching of heads. Stuck already, before we've started!

68autobug · 14 June 2011, 11:07

Hi
here are some pics
there are two nuts behind the fan housing to UNDO...
and two bolts either side of the bell housing/gearbox down low...
shown in first photo... bottom two bolts.. nuts taken off from below the engine...
TOP two holes have Bolts in them with nuts behind the fan housing..

they actually hold the engine in...

3rd photo shows the torque converter sitting on the shafts after the engine has been withdrawn..
You will need to push the torque converter back when pulling the engine out...

----------------------- BUT FIRST --------------------

Undo all the electrical bits and label them...
then the ATF hose going into the bottom of the ATF tank off to drain the ATF.. [loosen cap off the ATF tank and let ATF Drain]
air filter to be taken off.. if the black metal one it should have oil in it... don't tip it over... lol

the Hose going to the metal plate on the RHS of the fan belt need to be undone..
.. two spanners needed..
hold the pipe end so it doesn't twist the pipe.. while You undo the hose end..
the other ATF hose going to the top of the ATF Tank...[return line] needs to be taken off, and the ATF tank Cap undone
so the ATF can drain easily...

the fuel hose needs to be disconnected from the fuel pump.. it needs to be taken off the pipe over the RHS rear axle
plug it so it doesn't leak..
vacuum hoses from the control valve to be disconnected..
including the small vacuum hose going to the carby..
wires off the control valve off...

that is all I can remember... {i've done it so many times... I can do it when I'm asleep..lol "nightmares"]
any questions just ask..

You will need the two ATF/engine oil pump seals [ONLY evw] torque converter seal [evw]
engine mounts x 2 , renew all hoses -, front engine crankshaft oil seal, 8 x push rod tubes and 8 x silicone seals
oil cooler seals x 2. axle seals x 2, axle boots x 4 .. Lithium based MOLY grease - 5 liters of DEXRON ATF -

plus whatever is needed... I would also replace the fan belt with an alternator belt 11.3 x 912 part no: 111 903 137E
they don't stretch like a generator belt.. but aren't expensive from VW parts shops..

cheers

Lee

raysor · 14 June 2011, 11:18

I haven't looked at the rear valance since reading about removing it. Presumably it is welded? I am interested in how you get that off. And whether it will go back on!

volkenstein · 14 June 2011, 13:24

Raysor,
You bet it is welded! About 50 spot welds

. I used a 6mm drill . I bought a set of 8 for next to nothing so I could burn them out then throw them away. I think I went through twice. I found I had to hacksaw at the top where it joins (about 1/2 way up the engine bay/engine lid area) and for some reason along the where the valance joins the body around the engine seal channel. Slowly, slowly - catchee monkey

. After that it was a cold chisel to part the welds/brazed areas. It came off intact. But you need to break a welder out to fab up some stuff. I know Lee has a fibreglass valance but if you want to retain the OG metal you have to get creative with how to fix it.

It has been covered on other sites (samba, aussieveedubbers & prolly volkszone) in piccie detail.

>'68 models have less spot welds!!

As a thought, why not take off the engine lid and remove as much of the shroud/oil cooler etc as possible. That way you don't have so far to raise the car. Drop off a wheel so you can wriggle it out sideways as well.
That's including all of Lee's stuff!

Enjoy
Volkenstein

68autobug · 14 June 2011, 14:37

Hi Sean

I drilled Mine out... never went thru the metal.. [lucky]
My Son just cut His rear valance off with an angle grinder
and welded on brackets underneath...
He can weld and He's also a spray painter.. lol [He also has a spare fiberglass rear valance for Me]

I will post some pics of the OTHER WAY to cut off the valance..
its the way I would go... if there was a next time...lol

and I have done that the last few times... taken off the fan shroud in the engine bay..
You do need to take the engine lid hinge supports off.. just mark where they go..
first time is the hardest...lol..
after taking the fan shroud off.. then You can take the oil cooler off...
alternator or generator off... etc... not much sticking up in the air then...

cheers

LEE

size]

raysor · 14 June 2011, 15:24

Will Brian need an anaesthetic?

travbo24 · 14 June 2011, 22:27

I pulled the motor by myself just as was mentioned above. I removed the rear deck lid, pulled the fan housing, generator, etc...whatever I could to take down the height of the engine. Jacked the car up by the lower shock support as high as possible. Put a jackstand underneath the torsion bar and did the same on the other side. Bolted a piece of 2x12 to my floor jack and ran it up underneath the engine. removed all 4 engine mount bolts, 4 torque converter bolts, hoses, electrical, etc. Pulled it backwards off the tranny, lowered it on the jack, and then slid it off onto the floor of my garage. Rolled the jack out and slid the motor out from underneath the car. From there you can strip it down and have a buddy help you put it on the engine stand. Had mine out along with the transmission in one evening.

Just read and ask questions...the guys on here have been very helpful.
A Bently manual is a must...and the machine shop can have good advice.

There is an account on YouTube "64vdub" or something like that. He documents an entire VW engine rebuild through 15-16 sessions. Take the time to watch those...you'll find some helpful tricks that aren't in the shop manual.

Good luck!!
Travis

68autobug · 15 June 2011, 02:01

HI
You can buy Bentley manuals from amazon.com
You can buy New or good used books on their website..
A few years ago I bought a lot of used books
and had them bought over to Australia by a relative coming to Australia
I have 10 or more books on VW beetle - restoration - workshop and owner manuals - etc.

Many books seem to leave out small details [that a mechanic would know]
so the more books the better...

cheers

Lee in Australia

raysor · 15 June 2011, 10:00

Quote from: travbo24 on 14 June 2011, 22:27
I pulled the motor by myself just as was mentioned above. I removed the rear deck lid, pulled the fan housing, generator, etc...whatever I could to take down the height of the engine. Jacked the car up by the lower shock support as high as possible. Put a jackstand underneath the torsion bar and did the same on the other side. Bolted a piece of 2x12 to my floor jack and ran it up underneath the engine. removed all 4 engine mount bolts, 4 torque converter bolts, hoses, electrical, etc. Pulled it backwards off the tranny, lowered it on the jack, and then slid it off onto the floor of my garage. Rolled the jack out and slid the motor out from underneath the car. From there you can strip it down and have a buddy help you put it on the engine stand. Had mine out along with the transmission in one evening.

Just read and ask questions...the guys on here have been very helpful.
A Bently manual is a must...and the machine shop can have good advice.

There is an account on YouTube "64vdub" or something like that. He documents an entire VW engine rebuild through 15-16 sessions. Take the time to watch those...you'll find some helpful tricks that aren't in the shop manual.

Good luck!!
Travis

I suppose it is best to try and get it out without resorting to cutting off the rear valance. I have a trolley jack (not high lift) and two standard axle stands. Thinking about investing in a better jack and stands.
How high does the back have to go and do you have to level out the car by jacking the front as well?

68autobug · 15 June 2011, 10:25

No You leave the front on the ground...
and just lift the rear of the car to clear the body as You take the engine out...
as You pull the engine off the gearbox... about 6 inches approx??

You need to undo the torque converter from the flexplate thru the square holes [turning the engine to access the bolts]
then as You pull the engine backwards [engine weight on the jack] push the torque converter towards the gearbox
so it will stay on the gearbox shafts .. and You can just pull it off easily later...

when the engine is clear of the gearbox....
lower the jack down... until You clear the body.. - If the body is too low... jack the rear of the car up higher..-
then pull the engine rearwards... until its clear of the body...

much easier with no valance... but if You aren't going to keep taking the engine out [as I do...lol]
then there is no bodywork to do...

cheers

Lee

PS: My Son has this engine trolley..

raysor · 15 June 2011, 11:49

An old girl was walking up the road a couple of weeks ago and seeing the Beetle on the front lawn enquired "does it work?'.
'No', I said.
'Then it's time to let it go, I think'
And my wife: 'You are not going to spend more money on that heap of junk, are you?"
How could she? http://t1beetle.blogspot.com/2010/06/dont-let-grass-grow-under-your-wheels.html

raysor · 16 June 2011, 10:58

I was reading a book last night on Beetle restoration (can't remember what it was called). The car in the pictures had the rear wheels up on standard ramps as the engine was being pulled out (on a jack). I presume that is high enough?